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The answer lives in this podcast Pegasus Radio · Vanessa Murray

Published August 15, 2026 · Editorial summary by Listenly based on the real audio episode · Topics: Circle Academy · McKinsey Women at Work report · Shape Talent

Men already know what women face in construction — so why isn't anything changing?

The Circle Partnership's male listening exercises revealed a striking finding: men in the construction sector are fully aware of the challenges women face, with no meaningful gap between what male participants said and what the research proves. Vanessa Murray and Ceri Moyers' working hypothesis is that progress has stalled precisely because nothing has actually changed for men — cultural change therefore requires deliberate political and leadership will, not more awareness campaigns.

The exercises exposed an asymmetry at the heart of the diversity conversation: women now have expanded options around flexible working, family choices, and leadership pathways, while men still operate under a societal expectation to define success through seniority and earnings. Requests for flexible working are perceived fundamentally differently for men, creating an invisible ceiling on cultural change that affects all genders. As Murray argues, fixing individual women's confidence or skills is insufficient — if those women return to an unchanged culture, the underlying dynamic reproduces itself. You can tell a great deal about any organisation, she notes, by what it promotes, what it rewards, and crucially, the worst behaviour it tolerates.

This dynamic helps explain why mid-level women — particularly those aged 28 to 40 — continue to leave the sector at significant rates even after firms have invested in their development. The knowledge is there. The will to restructure norms for everyone, including men, is not. You can hear this conversation explored in full by listening to the episode on Listenly.

"If you fix the women in inverted commas, you're not doing anything. If they're going back into a culture which isn't changing, you're still going to have the same problem."

— Vanessa Murray, Co-founder, The Circle Partnership
What is a male listening exercise? As described by The Circle Partnership in this episode, a male listening exercise is a structured session in which men within an organisation are invited to articulate their understanding of the challenges women face at work. The exercise is not a training intervention — its purpose is diagnostic: to surface whether lack of knowledge is genuinely blocking progress, or whether another factor (such as lack of will or structural incentive) is the real constraint.

About Vanessa Murray

VM
Vanessa Murray
Co-founder · The Circle Partnership

Vanessa Murray co-founded The Circle Partnership alongside Ceri Moyers, drawing on her background from the property side of the built environment sector. Together, the two co-founders have spent approximately six to seven years building what has become a recognised platform for mid-level women in construction and property.

The Circle Partnership operates through two distinct arms: the Circle Academy, a structured programme supporting women across a wide experience range — from those just a few years into their careers to those in their mid-fifties — to advance their confidence and leadership; and a consultancy practice advising organisations on the cultural conditions needed for genuine diversity to take root.

Murray's authority on this subject comes directly from years of conducting listening exercises inside construction firms, analysing where cultural change stalls, and designing interventions that move beyond individual women to address systemic dynamics. Her core argument — that awareness alone is insufficient without structural change for men as well — places her at the intersection of gender equity strategy and organisational culture consulting in one of the UK's most male-dominated industries.

See also

Why is mid-level management the most neglected stage for training and development in construction firms?

Corporate training investment is typically concentrated at the graduate entry level and at senior leadership preparation, leaving mid-level management as the most structurally neglected stage for development in construction firms.

What is the difference between quotas and targets in gender diversity in construction, and what are the risks of quotas?

The co-founders distinguish between quotas, which mandate specific representation percentages, and targets backed by genuine cultural commitment. They warn that mandated quotas — such as the 40–45% female representation targets introduced by some larger consultancies — can produce unintended negative consequences for the very women placed in those roles.

Why is maternity leave not the main reason mid-level women leave the construction sector?

The co-founders argue that the experience of women aged 28 to 40 is hugely varied and cannot be reduced to maternity as the primary driver of attrition. A broader set of cultural and structural factors shapes why mid-level women exit the sector well beyond anything related to family leave.

Listen to the episode on Listenly